---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:17:26 -0500
All,
Here are some points for discussion, along with some locker comparisons--I'll have copies, so no need to print. Attachments in non docx below.
Chip
I suppose you're talking about the 8:30 am meeting tomorrow, Wednesday at Zen Clay.
I plan on being there after I shovel my and my neighbor's sidewalks.
Zen Clay's great coffee should taste especially good then! They usually have those fresh-out-of-the-oven muffins that early as well.
Ah, what's the agenda again?
Frank
On Jan 11, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Speak up now or forever hold your peace,
On whether or not you think the meeting should go on, or enough of you won't be able to make it, in which case we'll postpone it.
As of now, it is on, but Alice can't make it.
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
I probably won't be able to make it to the meeting. But here are my critiques:
Like Chip's Bike Parking Phase II document establishes, it's really important to define what the goals are for long-term parking, and that it is hard to do without taking into consideration factors like location and demand.
We have been talking for a long time about establishing parking in the garages. My instinct as an actual bicyclist tells me that very few people are going to want to use the enclosed public parking area for overnight parking. That rules out expensive lockers for that location, but it doesn't rule out the requirement for a higher degree of security that unenclosed racks in a passive security area would not provide for long-term parking during the daytime. Indoor parking is one thing that is lacking both in Morgantown and at WVU. I would encourage pursuing a solution that would involve building a cage which would surround racks. A swipe card would be required to gain entrance. The swipe cards could be purchased from the parking authority in their office for 1 year of usage. Cages enclosing racks provide a double layer of security, the cage prevents cannibalism of bicycle parts. True, other people can enter the cage, but the bicycles will be locked to racks, and there will be a degree of accountability. For parking all-day this is a more economic and space saving solution than using lockers. This is a medium security situation.
Now there are certainly applications that could use lockers. For instance, in areas where people live in apartments and have no choice then to park their bicycles outside. In this case, the locker provides protection from the elements along with security.
Here something I pulled out of the Parking Plan that was being working on over 2 years ago:
C. The distance from the location is another important factor. In general bicycle parking facilities should be no more than a 30-second walk (120 feet) from the building entrance or preferably within 50 feet. However, if feasible, short-term parking should be no more than 30 feet from the arrival location [Cambridge, MA], and long-term parking should be placed no further than 750 feet from the arrival location. The distance, in particular for long-term parking is governed by the rule established in SECURITY.A.1. For instance, a bicycle locker located 700 feet away where there is pedestrian traffic would be considered an appropriate facility, but an open rack facility with a sheltered roof 200 feet away in a quiet, unscrutinized location would be considered an unacceptable facility.
I have attached the Parking Plan to this message. Is has lot's of good information that could help with tomorrows meeting. But my message here is don't become fixated just on enclosed lockers for long-term parking. You need to consider many factors. At least for garages, I hope my cage solution for medium-security long-term parking is carefully considered.
Respectfully .. heh docx works with openoffice
-Jonathan
On 1/11/2011 9:38 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:
---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindlfrank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:17:26 -0500
All,
Here are some points for discussion, along with some locker comparisons--I'll have copies, so no need to print. Attachments in non docx below.
Chip
I suppose you're talking about the 8:30 am meeting tomorrow, Wednesday at Zen Clay.
I plan on being there after I shovel my and my neighbor's sidewalks.
Zen Clay's great coffee should taste especially good then! They usually have those fresh-out-of-the-oven muffins that early as well.
Ah, what's the agenda again?
Frank
On Jan 11, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Speak up now or forever hold your peace,
On whether or not you think the meeting should go on, or enough of you won't be able to make it, in which case we'll postpone it.
As of now, it is on, but Alice can't make it.
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Jonathan,
Do you have a design for a cage? Can you identify any vendors? Can you identify vendors for the card swipe or identify specific other cities that use it?
We had discussed the cage idea with Tom Arnold and even walked the PSC parking garage and discussed where it would go and how it would work. He was positive. We promised him a design.
Frank
On Jan 11, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:
I probably won't be able to make it to the meeting. But here are my critiques:
Like Chip's Bike Parking Phase II document establishes, it's really important to define what the goals are for long-term parking, and that it is hard to do without taking into consideration factors like location and demand.
We have been talking for a long time about establishing parking in the garages. My instinct as an actual bicyclist tells me that very few people are going to want to use the enclosed public parking area for overnight parking. That rules out expensive lockers for that location, but it doesn't rule out the requirement for a higher degree of security that unenclosed racks in a passive security area would not provide for long-term parking during the daytime. Indoor parking is one thing that is lacking both in Morgantown and at WVU. I would encourage pursuing a solution that would involve building a cage which would surround racks. A swipe card would be required to gain entrance. The swipe cards could be purchased from the parking authority in their office for 1 year of usage. Cages enclosing racks provide a double layer of security, the cage prevents cannibalism of bicycle parts. True, other people can enter the cage, but the bicycles will be locked to racks, and there will be a degree of accountability. For parking all-day this is a more economic and space saving solution than using lockers. This is a medium security situation.
Now there are certainly applications that could use lockers. For instance, in areas where people live in apartments and have no choice then to park their bicycles outside. In this case, the locker provides protection from the elements along with security.
Here something I pulled out of the Parking Plan that was being working on over 2 years ago:
C. The distance from the location is another important factor. In general bicycle parking facilities should be no more than a 30-second walk (120 feet) from the building entrance or preferably within 50 feet. However, if feasible, short-term parking should be no more than 30 feet from the arrival location [Cambridge, MA], and long-term parking should be placed no further than 750 feet from the arrival location. The distance, in particular for long-term parking is governed by the rule established in SECURITY.A.1. For instance, a bicycle locker located 700 feet away where there is pedestrian traffic would be considered an appropriate facility, but an open rack facility with a sheltered roof 200 feet away in a quiet, unscrutinized location would be considered an unacceptable facility. I have attached the Parking Plan to this message. Is has lot's of good information that could help with tomorrows meeting. But my message here is don't become fixated just on enclosed lockers for long-term parking. You need to consider many factors. At least for garages, I hope my cage solution for medium-security long-term parking is carefully considered.
Respectfully .. heh docx works with openoffice
-Jonathan
On 1/11/2011 9:38 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:
---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindl frank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:17:26 -0500
All,
Here are some points for discussion, along with some locker comparisons--I'll have copies, so no need to print. Attachments in non docx below.
Chip
I suppose you're talking about the 8:30 am meeting tomorrow, Wednesday at Zen Clay.
I plan on being there after I shovel my and my neighbor's sidewalks.
Zen Clay's great coffee should taste especially good then! They usually have those fresh-out-of-the-oven muffins that early as well.
Ah, what's the agenda again?
Frank
On Jan 11, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Speak up now or forever hold your peace,
On whether or not you think the meeting should go on, or enough of you won't be able to make it, in which case we'll postpone it.
As of now, it is on, but Alice can't make it.
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
<Morgantown-Parking-Plan-2-1.doc>
On 1/12/2011 7:16 AM, Frank Gmeindl wrote:
Jonathan,
Do you have a design for a cage? Can you identify any vendors? Can you identify vendors for the card swipe or identify specific other cities that use it?
Bike cages are custom designed to the specific application. There is a company in San Francisco - http://www.bikeparking.com/bikecages/index.html - that does this. However, a local security fence company could be employed to accomplish the same goal. I have no quotes on this since I don't know the dimensions and particulars of the spaces being looked at in the garages, nor do I have the free time to do this research. The Parking Authority should be finding these things out.
This great film at http://www.streetfilms.org/alewife-stations-bike-cage-cambridge-mass/ shows all the elements required. This is a large scale application: a roof was built - not necessary in a garage, a 24-hr security camera is used - a fake one could be put up, the door closes on its own - definitely a nice design factor, traditional inverted U racks are used along with stacked racks - targets a variety of users. The rack issue is separate from the cage design, once the cage is in place the space can be populated with racks that utilize the space wisely. It shouldn't be hard to figure out the rack costs, that just leaves figuring out what a high security fence from floor to ceiling enclosing a wall or corner with a card swipe device system would cost.
Here's what U of Wisc charges for usage: http://transportation.wisc.edu/transportation/bike_paidparking.aspx
If Morgantown installs bike cages, this will send a positive message that we want to encourage a large population to use bicycles to commute and we are providing a convenient solution. Bicycle lockers send a message that we are catering to a limited population of commuters with expensive bicycles. What about that unfortunate bicyclist that pays for a locker, and then can't find an empty one? We could use both approaches, but I firmly oppose just using lockers.
-Jonathan
We had discussed the cage idea with Tom Arnold and even walked the PSC parking garage and discussed where it would go and how it would work. He was positive. We promised him a design.
Frank
On Jan 11, 2011, at 10:53 PM, Jonathan Rosenbaum wrote:
I probably won't be able to make it to the meeting. But here are my critiques:
Like Chip's Bike Parking Phase II document establishes, it's really important to define what the goals are for long-term parking, and that it is hard to do without taking into consideration factors like location and demand.
We have been talking for a long time about establishing parking in the garages. My instinct as an actual bicyclist tells me that very few people are going to want to use the enclosed public parking area for overnight parking. That rules out expensive lockers for that location, but it doesn't rule out the requirement for a higher degree of security that unenclosed racks in a passive security area would not provide for long-term parking during the daytime. Indoor parking is one thing that is lacking both in Morgantown and at WVU. I would encourage pursuing a solution that would involve building a cage which would surround racks. A swipe card would be required to gain entrance. The swipe cards could be purchased from the parking authority in their office for 1 year of usage. Cages enclosing racks provide a double layer of security, the cage prevents cannibalism of bicycle parts. True, other people can enter the cage, but the bicycles will be locked to racks, and there will be a degree of accountability. For parking all-day this is a more economic and space saving solution than using lockers. This is a medium security situation.
Now there are certainly applications that could use lockers. For instance, in areas where people live in apartments and have no choice then to park their bicycles outside. In this case, the locker provides protection from the elements along with security.
Here something I pulled out of the Parking Plan that was being working on over 2 years ago:
C. The distance from the location is another important factor. In general bicycle parking facilities should be no more than a 30-second walk (120 feet) from the building entrance or preferably within 50 feet. However, if feasible, short-term parking should be no more than 30 feet from the arrival location [Cambridge, MA], and long-term parking should be placed no further than 750 feet from the arrival location. The distance, in particular for long-term parking is governed by the rule established in SECURITY.A.1. For instance, a bicycle locker located 700 feet away where there is pedestrian traffic would be considered an appropriate facility, but an open rack facility with a sheltered roof 200 feet away in a quiet, unscrutinized location would be considered an unacceptable facility.I have attached the Parking Plan to this message. Is has lot's of good information that could help with tomorrows meeting. But my message here is don't become fixated just on enclosed lockers for long-term parking. You need to consider many factors. At least for garages, I hope my cage solution for medium-security long-term parking is carefully considered.
Respectfully .. heh docx works with openoffice
-Jonathan
On 1/11/2011 9:38 PM, Chip Wamsley wrote:
---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Frank Gmeindlfrank.gmeindl@comcast.net Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:17:26 -0500
All,
Here are some points for discussion, along with some locker comparisons--I'll have copies, so no need to print. Attachments in non docx below.
Chip
I suppose you're talking about the 8:30 am meeting tomorrow, Wednesday at Zen Clay.
I plan on being there after I shovel my and my neighbor's sidewalks.
Zen Clay's great coffee should taste especially good then! They usually have those fresh-out-of-the-oven muffins that early as well.
Ah, what's the agenda again?
Frank
On Jan 11, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Gunnar Shogren wrote:
Speak up now or forever hold your peace,
On whether or not you think the meeting should go on, or enough of you won't be able to make it, in which case we'll postpone it.
As of now, it is on, but Alice can't make it.
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
Bikeboard mailing list Bikeboard@cheat.org http://cheat.org/mailman/listinfo/bikeboard
<Morgantown-Parking-Plan-2-1.doc>
-
Chip Wamsley -
Frank Gmeindl -
Jonathan Rosenbaum